Panel Details
"Online Privacy" and "Internet Freedom" is the collection of data top of mind for many because of new revelations about the constant supervision of the government, and mass by companies. Golden Frog is happy to welcome a very distinguished group to examine the current state of online private life, what citizens simple steps can make for themselves and where government legislation is heading in the protection of "the era of the NSA."
Speakers
- Ron Yokubiatis, Co-CEO of Golden Frog
- Ron Yokubaitis is the co-founder and co-CEO of technology companies: Golden Frog, Giganews and Data Foundry Texas.net. Golden Frog was created to develop services that give people the opportunity to protect themselves online and access an uncensored Internet
- Scott McCollough, of capital McCollough |. PC Henry
- W. Scott McCollough is a lawyer whose practice focuses on telecommunications, Internet law and economic regulation. It represents the interests of consumers, competitive communications companies, and the application of technology and service providers.
- Scott Henson, director of policy at the Innocence Project of Texas
- Scott Henson is a political consultant who worked on Texas criminal justice policy for twenty years. He writes a widely read blog gritsforbreakfast.org and is a co-founder of the Electronic Privacy Coalition Texas.
- Brian Hauss, legal fellow at ACLU
- Brian Hauss is a legal fellow with the ?? s Speech, Privacy ACLU Technology Project, and. At the ACLU, he worked on a wide variety of freedom of expression and privacy litigation, including challenges to the government "?? the use of location tracking technology, research all suspicion of electronic devices at the international border, and forced disclosure of a key private encryption Internet service provider.
Panel Moderated by
- Justin Freeman , corporate counsel, Rackspace
- Justin Freeman's business adviser at Rackspace Hosting. with expertise in both legal and technical areas of the fast growing field of cloud computing right, Justin is mainly in Rackspace Hosting agreements technically complex corporate transaction (with a focus on OpenStack portfolio ?? s Rackspace), data privacy and compliance issues, legal review of product development efforts, and public policy issues focusing on issues of intellectual property, security and confidentiality.
Full transcript (Download PDF)
Justin Freeman: We'll wind our way through a couple of topics related to data privacy, Internet security and free access to Internet. I'll pause naturally among some of the topics so feel free to take your questions, but ask them on the basis of each subject throughout the presentation.
I introduce myself, I'm Justin Freeman. I am a business consultant with Rackspace. I'll be the moderator today. Going down the sign here, in no particular order of my left at the end is, we start with Mr. Scott McCollough is the main Nicola Henry PC. He is a lawyer whose practice focuses on telecommunications, Internet law, economic regulation and represents the interests of consumers, competitive communications companies, and the application of technology and service providers.
To his immediate left is Mr. Ron Yokubaitis, co-CEO of Golden Frog, Giganews and Data Foundry. Ron has founded a number of technology companies, including Giganews and Data Foundry Texas.net. Some of you probably used to access your modem back in the day if you were in Texas. Golden Frog was created especially to develop services that give people the opportunity to protect themselves online and to access the Internet uncensored way.
Directly to his left is Mr. Brian Hauss, a legal man ACLU. Brian is a man ACLU speech, privacy, and technology project. He worked on a wide variety of freedom of expression and privacy litigation, including challenges to governments using the location tracking technology, search the list of suspicions of electronic devices to international border, and forced disclosure of Internet service providers private key encryption.
And down at the very end here we have Mr. Scott Henson, who is the policy director of the Innocence Project in Texas. Scott is a political consultant who worked on the Texas criminal justice policy for over 20 years. He writes a blog widely read in gritsforbreakfast.org and is co-founder of the Texas Electronic Privacy coalition. I would like you to join me in welcoming our panelists.
Life is a fairly large area. We will dice it up a bit but just to kind of kick off with something, put a pin on it, I would just go head and start with you Scott. What do you see as the greatest threat to consumer privacy in space technology and do you have any solutions would you propose be light, advocate, or mitigate this threat
Scott McCollough: I consider that there are really three basic problems and a really important potential solution. The company is becoming much more aware on the basis of these revelations Snowden and other things. I do not think people really understand the scope of the monitoring we have in our society today; both by governments and private interests.Nor people really understand how information is captured and what it is used after it is captured. Many people may believe that they have nothing to fear from a surveillance society. I think everyone does. People close their blinds in their home windows for a reason. They close the door to the bathroom for a reason. Everyone has something to hide.
To bring home the electronics company, if you happen to use a tablet or a mobile phone while you are sitting on the toilet, people may not be aware that there is a technology that allows the webcam to turn on and the microphone is on; even if perhaps the switch is not. They can see in all its glorious detail. People have something to hide; even honest, upright, God-fearing citizens. In fact, I would say in some ways, they have the most to fear from a surveillance society
Justin Freeman: .. Ron, I would like to hear your thoughts
Ron Yokubaitis: well, I think I'm here. Can you all hear me
Man: Yes, perfect
Ron Yokubaitis :. I would say not God-fearing people have much to fear too. It is everyone .... Can you hear me now? I'm just trying to unplug. Even as I said, not fearing God. This is something that we ... can we get the audio down. Do we have an audio control here? That's better ... we filed back in '06 about it with the FCC on deep packet inspection by AT & T and it is in your terms of service. So everyone with AT & T service, you gave them permission when you clicked right on considerations in filtering spam, and to collect all your data and keep it safe [inaudible 00:05:34]
This is short for legalese -. You don 't read and you do not accept Internet or Telecom board really engage what they do. You already voluntarily surrendered. He was struck with all Linux gurus in the room - ya'll give up the right and left things the Gmail account course .. Google now says "Ah, we have encryption to protect your privacy" .. except that you can not do it; you can not protect it from Google. Nevertheless, I am so pleased that Mr. Greenwald has attracted people's attention because you are just crying in the wilderness and even good geeks sit here and just push, push, push back, but you will not be anonymous .
This is ... We argued against it on Usenet - you can run but you can not hide. You can do all sorts of things, but if they want you, they'll make you and if you do not believe me go talk to Osama bin Laden. Again, with Bitcoin is not anonymous, it is just pseudo-anonymity, they say anyway. The block chain is a sausage, but they can hunt down the chain. You just need to put your clothes as Scott would say. It is not that you have something to hide, just my wife taught me long ago in every family, there's just none of your business, it's simple. It is not their business. You have private business and it is yours. I think Andy Everton Washington got Senator Cruz say an answer to a question ... Is the information of people of their property, their private property and he said yes. Well this is what they get, they steal your private property. You would not do that. You must keep in your wallet and keep it out of sight. I would just try to turn it personally, you'll take the blinders. I'm sure you secure your networks and servers and all, but here you fight the wind here. It is ongoing, but we will not be anonymous, we're just going to be able to let them go for the low fruit hanging off. We're just trying not to be the nail that sticks too high
Justin Freeman.? Brian, your thoughts on the biggest threats to consumers
Brian Hauss My pleasure. I'll start by simply issuing a general warning. What I say here are my own personal views and not the views of the ACLU. I think the biggest threat to the world of privacy is what I call the problem of the mosaic. All the time, consumers and citizens give up lots of bits of seemingly anonymous information; where you are, what your IP address when you log in, all kinds of ... just tiny bits of data that you are just giving all the time as you go about your daily life.
In addition to all location information or IP address, you also now obtained biometric data - fingerprints, eye scans, and facial scanning technology is something we seeing more and more used. Crown corporations and large as Google or Facebook or whatever you are increasingly able to collect, preserve, store and analyze data. Then, through the use and development of large data algorithms, they are able to take the data and understand the incredibly personal things about your life.
They can understand if you are a drinker, if you cheat your spouse, what church you go, what libraries you visit, what time you stay in place when you get up, all kinds of things . Even just small changes in them can be surprisingly revealing about personal things that are going on in your life, what you think, what you do, what your habits are, what your flaws are, what your virtues are. These are things that we traditionally like private pensions that the government could not obtain without a warrant less. Sometimes we thought they were just practical obstacles that have prevented the government to obtain at all, but increasingly, the government is able to understand all these things and is able to understand from data that is publicly available, at least under the law.
I think the big problem today is how can we solve this problem Mosaic. It is a difficult thing to do. I think the first step is just to acknowledge there is a problem. In this regard, I think Edwards Snowden's revelations have been incredibly helpful to show people the scope of monitoring was in progress, the size of the dreadnought that everyone get caught. Once we recognize there is a problem, the next that is determining what to do about it. I think a big step in this regard would be to spend a significant legislative reform. The privacy of electronic communication is more than 20 years and it's time he got updated effectively regulate technologies that exist today.
In 1986, you do not have Google, you do not have Facebook, email was a different kind of thing. You actually just download it from a server and store it on your laptop and you would not keep forever in the cloud where it is now. This law is just not at all designed to protect the type of information that we are actively online store. In addition, we want to encourage businesses to self-regulate. If companies realize that consumers really care about privacy, they appreciate that it's not something they can just take for free, there are economic costs to invade consumers privacy, so I think we'll start to see more self-regulation of companies and we hope to go to a protected sphere privacy more
Justin Freeman :. Great thought Brian Scott, your thoughts
Scott Henson: Thanks for having me, and I apologize, I have a little cold coming on to me that no shake hands and I apologize for my .... There. Okay. I guess the thing I'll add is that there are just many layers to these questions. It is like peeling and onion. We must distinguish between the federal and state regions. The federal EPCA that we have just heard is a mess. It was kind of a mess in 1986. It is just a ridiculous mess today. It was written at a time when nobody had written ... at a time when nobody had a significant amount of storage, the amount of storage is on your computer in 1986. The idea is that keeping someone the value of 10 years of the email was illusion, almost mind blowing. Who has not only or so somewhere on an email account? Texas law EPCA incorporates by reference. He says they can get under these three different standards that any conflict or you can get something under the EPCA federal standard. We sort ourselves related to this. Regarding ... Another thing I would add on trade and appearance of consumers, I try to distinguish between some of the issues and of commercial confidentiality issues surrounding the application of the law and government .
I think it's one thing if you share data in an application via the terms of the agreement. It is another thing if the police simply has the power to follow you because they also then have the power to try to stop you and put you in prison. They raise questions about civil liberties beyond the terms of service. I could not agree more, which is another big mess I do not know how out of this hole ...
There was a famous episode about - I'm sure many of people here have heard of - where a company in England established terms of service as a kind of satire and parody is, it's not accurate, but something to the effect: "If you sign these terms Service, you agree to surrender your first born to Satan and to pledge your eternal allegiance to its dark holiness or whatever it was. "And has done this for several weeks, then announced," Hey this is just a joke, I just wanted you to know that nobody reads these things. "This person in all that time had never read through it and say," Wait, I can get your e-mail service without selling my first born for the Dark Lord. " This is a huge problem, but I think it is for me to separate some of the issues of law enforcement that are simply cleaner. You are just distribute consumer information, so it's just a lot more muddy and there are people who say, "You know what, I'm willing to give some personal information to a business because I want a dollar or quarter out of my next box of detergent, "or anything, they will get money for it. it's muddy. Questions of law enforcement for me, you must have a mandate? Does the law enforcement must have a warrant? Does the IRS must have a mandate? that ... Yeah go ahead
Ron Yokubaitis . Yeah Scott When you talked about how the Texas refers to the ECPA, the law on the protection of electronic communications in the last Parliament, I believe we have passed the law ... because. I know Scott wrote part and Andy ... [inaudible 00:15:25] which is that Texas now, a search warrant is needed for e-mail, the contents of your Internet communications. We made an appeal to Texas. We are the only state so far. Other states have sought to follow the steps of Texas. You know, Andy working with us, went to South Carolina and Florida. We try to get the ECPA in Washington, where they are the Crips and Bloods - to follow Texas law requiring a search warrant and probable cause they will do surveillance. We are freer here in Texas than any other state. You are more secure and private in matters of law enforcement
Scott Henson :. The content of the email. There were two big bills last session on these topics. There was on the geo-location data and there was a the content of the email. Email content past, geo-location data was approved by a 126-4 vote room and in the other room, did not come out. Geo-location is really what I am referring to. Email certainly was good, the content of the email was great. I'll tell you, the party tea people were prepared here in Texas, it is rather funny. The race is the Republican who populate the Texas Legislature today is not Republican from your grandfather. It's pretty fun to see some of the kind of more libertarian spirit of people who see this stuff and just automatically ... It was remarkable
Ron Yokubaitis "Obviously, they should not do it. ".: days of the order of the Republican Party is now complete because you have too many people coming from the tea party and say,
Scott Henson "problem with the constitution." this is funny, some of these guys believe their own hype. You hear it and it sounds, "Oh that government hypocritical." Some of them are real enough about it. I had guys like tea party to me saying, "Look, the US imprisons more people than anyone in the nation. Texas incarcerate more people than any nation, which is true. "If I'm for less government, so how can I actually support this. How can I not try to scale that back? Some of these guys believe this stuff, it's not just rhetoric for them and they are in charge of that, so you'll see ...
Scott McCollough: I do not know if there are enough copies, but I left a recent survey ... thirty copies of a recent poll dealing with how the various liberals against conservatives consider the NSA program in particular. the information is quite surprising. Almost across the border, you will find that we believe that all conservatives are much more opposed to the NSA surveillance program then our Liberals. There is a bit of a generalization of more, but generally you will find that in today's environment , those conservatives call are much more distrustful of government surveillance programs so are those who call themselves liberals.
On the other hand, you will find the Conservatives are much more understanding and willing to tolerate the collection and use of information, private information by private companies. In my personal opinion, I am concerned both because ultimately, if a company gets, so of course they can use it for its own needs, but once a company gets, then the question is how is it easier for the government to then get
Brian Hauss: If I could jump in a second on this point. The third doctrine is this kind of strange document constitutional document when it came out in the 70s, but what it basically says and what the government used to say that when you give a company your private information, even if this information is essentially necessary for that business to run ...
therefore, the location of your cell phone is used by the cell phone companies to provide cellular service. Consequently, they also collect private information about where you are with your mobile phone just pinging cell towers. Then the government and cell companies say, consumers have already given this information to you, nor the expectation of privacy in that information, you have to hand it to us. Enter the third doctrine now, what happens when you give information to a company, then the government comes and say well no more privacy on this information, it has already been given more than we are entitled to it.
This is really I think ... in the constitutional sense, they are connected in this manner and that is why I think it is really important perhaps legislatively to try to turn the third doctrine so the ACLU can hide in the courts to try to limit because clearly the results were never intended or foreseen by the Supreme Court when they delivered the decision, bad decision
Justin Freeman :. we seem to have a consensus then. A number of things. First, one of the main problems faced by people is that many private companies collect a lot of data about you, which may be accessed by law enforcement or which they can share, by putting together a large photo of you which significantly invades your privacy.
than you think ... You talked about how it is problematic when companies effectively use boiler plate and their conditions of service that often the state or bury that they do with your information. Does any company stand to you or to any companies stand out from you who are especially bad in terms of companies to inform users of this type of information they collect and how they can use this?
Scott McCollough: I both developed and analyzed countless companies Privacy Policy. When I was writing, it is an exercise carrying your privacy, it is an exercise that you give up all expectations of privacy, all his rights, giving ownership rights to me and allow me to use it for whatever i want. It's like HIPPA you all do when you go to the doctor.
In the name of protecting your medical privacy, you are supposed to file this form and you think, oh great, my privacy is protected. Instead, it is a floating exercise. That good policy? Since Ron here is my favorite clients I will not say it's privacy policies, I recommend them.
They basically say that your information is yours, we do not want, we do not want to fool with it, we think you should encrypt and keep the key and the only time we'll go speech is when the government gives us a mandate. They say it is clearly and simply and without qualifications.
I challenge you to find another company, including Internet service providers, in particular, even my friends on Google, being so clear about what it is in terms of protection life. There are reasons people do not read these privacy policies. They are blunt, they are impenetrable, and only a lawyer can understand, and it takes effort and we do not do anything unless we charged
Ron Yokubaitis :. Let me defend myself. Listen, I could talk to some illuminated in this room and I really feel like I'm talking to a pretty hard head because they are very combative but assume, suppose, assume; and you can not assume. Assume the worst to protect you. Just because someone say they do not connect, they connect, particularly in the context of clouds. You rent servers, but you do not control the recording to the cloud-based server or network flow statistics on downloading drivers, someone else does. It does not mean that you do not log in because the connection you just quickly go to the hosting provider, you get what you want down the hosting provider that you disclose. We can let Rackspace talk about how corrupt their policies. There are serious problems, unless you are heavy around servers, switches and router even know your DNS. Okay, a Google DNS, "Hi, I'm from Google and I'm here to help you for free." You know Google DNS has all these critical data to be able to seek an IP address that you or your customer, everyone uses.
You must start watching the big hole in your private life that is open and DNS Google DNS. There is no free lunch, as you know, you should know. We did not grow up with a free lunch box, there is no free lunch at the end of this. When you find a free lunch, you of course breakfast. You'll just need to take ... First, you have to believe there is a problem other than Snowden said. The thing that I read, and my son read me the book Greenwald.
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